Hamilton Law and Mediation, PLLC<\/a><\/p>\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=”3.17.3″ module_alignment=”center” custom_margin=”0px||0px|” custom_padding=”20px||20px|”][et_pb_column type=”4_4″][et_pb_text admin_label=”Podcast Title” _builder_version=”3.17.5″ header_2_font=”Raleway||||||||” header_2_text_align=”center” header_2_font_size=”24px” custom_margin=”0px||0px|” custom_padding=”0px||0px|” header_3_font=”Georgia||on||||||” header_3_text_align=”center” header_3_text_color=”#757575″ header_3_font_size=”26px”]<\/p>\n
Start of Interview<\/h3>\n
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Debra Hamilton:<\/p>\n
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We are back with my friend, an incredible lawyer with a disability, Gary. I found Part I so captivating on how we have that conversation.<\/p>\n
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Gary Norman:<\/p>\n
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Thanks for the second part of this interview. To start quickly, there\u2019s a real space in reasonable accommodations questions, service animal questions in the workplace context, for building bilateral relationships. Bilateral conversations. That doesn\u2019t have to be so heavy-handed as to come down from an EEO officer, EEO office. But it takes each of us being committed to the idea of partnering for inclusion. And then it really takes both of us on both sides \u2014 those with a dog like myself, those who are able-body to have that important conversation. For good or for bad. I love Bowie in the office. I don\u2019t love Bowie in the office. Bowie is a great and well-behaved guide dog. Bowie today is something that wasn\u2019t appropriate for a guide dog. But Instead of resorting to squaring off in a very strict legal based context; really having that bilateral, open frame of mind and openness to crucial conversations.<\/p>\n
[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=”3.17.3″ custom_margin=”0px||0px|” custom_padding=”20px||20px|”][et_pb_column type=”1_4″][et_pb_text admin_label=”Debra Hamilton:\t11:21\t\t” _builder_version=”3.17.3″ text_font=”Raleway|600||on|||||” text_font_size=”22px” text_orientation=”center” custom_margin=”0px||0px|” custom_padding=”20px||20px|”]<\/p>\n
Debra Hamilton:<\/p>\n
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I think that is so important, because the crucial conversation comes in respecting how everybody feels. And especially with respect to service animals, which are much different than emotional support animals. Some people are being brushed with a brush that they shouldn\u2019t be; because they may not have as visible a need for their service animal as, as a blind person does. Because you can see that a blind person might be blind, but we know Gary, there are incredible service animals that are in place for epileptics, people who suffer from epilepsy, who suffer from diabetes, who suffer from PTSD and those are a little bit different. And how do you have that conversation or how do you facilitate that conversation while also maintaining the privacy levels that we all want to keep in place for a person living with these kinds of disabilities?<\/p>\n
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Gary Norman:<\/p>\n
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It impacted me, this morning at the bias training, or trying to prevent bias. At the end of the training, which was delivered by an incredible equity Subject Matter Expert, we interacted with some sort of excel chart; and she asked different questions. How do you identify your spouse? What does your spouse do? What are these different networks? And what it showed is hopefully you\u2019re not, you\u2019re not of such a narrow mind frame; that in the end result, you have this big expansive network. So if you have more network, if you have more connectivity, even speaking from a neural science perspective, then you\u2019re going to be more open to these conversations.<\/p>\n
If you have a very narrow set of networks (where I\u2019m not trying to set a quota) if Gary is the only person you\u2019ve ever had with a guide dog; that\u2019s really going to limit your response to these issues.<\/p>\n
So if you can build that framework to have organic openness to meeting diverse people and hopefully diverse people with service animals; that will probably really help you as you get into the reasonable accommodation question to figure out really what is the best. Certainly what\u2019s legally required, but what\u2019s best for all in this situation.<\/p>\n
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Debra Hamilton:<\/p>\n
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These multilevel discussions are so key. It\u2019s so important to make sure that everyone is heard because it\u2019s not just all about the service dog handler, but it\u2019s about the people in their space so that everyone can understand and be respectful. And I think that\u2019s what sometimes is lost. Um, you said binary, but I think sometimes it\u2019s, it\u2019s multilateral discussions because there is so many people involved in the discussion.<\/p>\n
I think it\u2019s great that you went to the implicit bias training on this day for this conversation because a lot of times we do carry our implicit bias with us because of the experiences we\u2019ve had; and how do we address those. Maybe you can give us a little insight into the tips this program provided for you on how to recognize your implicit bias. And what to do once you recognize it; if you can.<\/p>\n
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Gary Norman:<\/p>\n
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I would also say there is a real need to have champions, to have diverse champions. So that really involves us, as a society, breaking glass ceilings. So that we have more people with disabilities who have service animals as champions. In terms of the training today, I think we wrapped up with a few good points.<\/p>\n
Number one, we need to continue training ourselves and training others on these questions. In this context, we\u2019re talking about service animals; disability during employment month. We need to somehow, each of us as a lawyer public servant, find a way to continue to build a more empathic, compassionate society.<\/p>\n
These questions make me feel like the book about grammar school, and what you\u2019re supposed to learn in grammar school. That\u2019s kind of what I thought of this morning. How much of this is the ancient words of civility, courtesy, and decorum that I just wrote in a speech for someone? How much is our society losing that both from technology and the divides that come from technology, such as from Twitter and such as from sound bites? We live in a time in which the civil rights and religious rights of others or greatly disrespected.<\/p>\n
If we can, if we can be the true lawyer public servants we should be, and build a more compassionate society through inclusive law and inclusive best practices; that would be my hope for us as a profession and for people dealing with these animal type issues. And then thirdly, I think one tip that resonated with me from the training this morning that I would continue to use and our trainings with Debra here is the idea that, um, you know; there\u2019s more commonality that unites us, than the differences that divide us. Unfortunately, in this day we have a conversation which saw Jewish people die, because they practice one religious faith and that\u2019s not the kind of country our founding fathers wanted and certainly not the kind of country that we live up to as civil rights leaders when we start making less inclusive communities.<\/p>\n
This is why this work that Debra and I do, it\u2019s important both collectively and individually. And why the work that all of you do is so important individually and collectively.<\/p>\n
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Debra Hamilton:<\/p>\n
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Thank you so much Gary. I love when you wrap these things up the way you do because it is such a sixth sense that you have that creates the point-by-point coverage of what we discussed. I think the most important piece that you brought out was that we have a commonality; and if we take a moment to foster that conversation — what we have in common — instead of fostering the conversation on our differences, then civility will return to our lifestyles, to our country, and to our world. And as we close up this podcast, this recording for Employment Month with our contribution toward hiring more disabled parties; we leave you with this.<\/p>\n
You will be incredibly better served by opening up your mind and your business to being able to work with, and along, the disabled in any venue. Because they; everyone, brings richness to a workplace. Everyone. So if we can just take a moment to recognize in this Employment Month that everyone brings something special to the workplace, and if we focus on our commonalities and not our differences; that always starts a conversation for the positive. If in fact, you are an employee with a disability, working in the way that Gary and I are hoping to educate people — both the disabled and the able to have a conversation \u2013 it is important to have an educational conversation, as opposed to simply law based. Because sometimes conversation is limited by the law. To the, to the quick, if, in fact, you start with the law. Any last thoughts, Gary?<\/p>\n
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Gary Norman:<\/p>\n
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Yeah. I would like to wrap up with this sort of syllogism. There\u2019s data and calculus that shows scientifically there\u2019s a value in diversity. Disability — sometimes it\u2019s forgotten that disability is a part of diversity. Therefore there\u2019s a real value in disability diversity in the workplace and making sure that we can help people with those extra supports and services they need to be productive in the workplace. To my mind, a real structural brand exists for those who are fortunate, like myself as a person partnered with some form of a working animal or a service animal like Bowie. So hopefully, if you have questions or comments on that, or require assistance; hopefully we can be of assistance to you and building a more diverse workplace.<\/p>\n
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Debra Hamilton:<\/p>\n
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Absolutely. And Gary, I love what you said, because everyone, whether they\u2019re able or disabled have the ability to be their best selves and to bring their best selves to a conversation. And I think that\u2019s the practice that we have been facilitating together. Having the ability to have a conversation that creates educational growth is something that was really important to both of us, which is why we have on-the spot-conflict resolution — being more relational and organically trying to find a different path. Not the negative litigious path, but the positive educational path to help everyone work alongside each other in a more peaceful way.<\/p>\n
In the future, including, next year in 2019, we will be collectively providing trainings, mediation trainings for sure, grounded in these approaches and skills. We are both so given to partnering with others, that some of these trainings will also be provided with other great colleagues.<\/p>\n
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Conclusion Part II:<\/p>\n
[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”3_4″][et_pb_text admin_label=”Podcast Part I Conclusion” _builder_version=”3.17.5″ max_width=”85%” module_alignment=”center” custom_margin=”0px||0px|” custom_padding=”20px||20px|” text_font=”Raleway||||||||” header_3_font=”Georgia||on||||||” header_3_text_align=”center” header_3_text_color=”#919191″ header_3_font_size=”26px”]<\/p>\n
This is Debra Vey Voda-Hamilton of Hamilton Law and Mediation and Gary C. Norman, Esq. L.L.M., Attorney, Consultant, and Convener (Vice Chair at the Maryland Commission on Civil Rights and other credentials) talking to you about how to celebrate bringing all sorts of people into your employment facility, disabled and able; and how to really accommodate them and have that conversation, so they all can live peacefully together. Gary may be contacted at (410) 241-6745 — preferably via text-based message.<\/p>\n
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